EP 236: Sasheen Artis →

Today I got to speak with two-time Emmy winning producer Sasheen Artis, who is the Founder/CEO of Plenty of Pie, a talent incubator and production accelerator offering leadership development, practical producers skills training, and mentorship to emerging and mid-career creatives of color.

Sasheen has worked with such newsmakers as President Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and director Jonathan Demme. Sasheen’s latest film, Birthing Justice,addressing Black maternal health outcomes, screened for 200 countries at the United Nations and is part of a continuing education course for the American Medical Association. It currently airs on PBS.

For four years, Sasheen chaired the Producers Guild of America flagship diversity initiative, Power of Diversity Master Workshop, and was invited by HRH Princess Rym Ali and the Royal Film Commission to create and lead a week-long seminar for creatives in Amman, Jordan.

Sasheen got her start at Paramount Home Entertainment, working on blockbuster marketing campaigns for Titanic, Mission: Impossible, Braveheart and TV series like Star Trek: The Next Generation and Nickelodeon’s Rugrats.

She is a member of the Television Academy, the Producers Guild, and Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority, Inc. Sasheen is originally from Harlem, New York and earned her BA in Psychology from Stanford University.

We talked about all the things she’s working on and shared our unpopular opinions about The Color Purple.

You can find links to everything I’m up to at https://linktr.ee/julieharrisoliver and at Julieharrisoliver.com 

EP 235: GenXX initiative →

EP 235: GenXX Initiative with Maria Burton, Monique Sorgen, Nandi Bowe and Susan Dynner

Today I got to speak with the group of accomplished female directors behind the initiative called GenXX: Maria Burton, Susan Dynner, Monique Sorgen, Nandi Bowe. 

Maria and Monique have been on this podcast before, episodes 14 and 131, respectively, which you can still find on the website, here: Ep 14 Maria Burton and here: EP 131 Monique Sorgen.

All of these women have banded together to create GenXX, an initiative to raise awareness and create directing opportunities for the generation of experienced, talented and vetted women who were overlooked - lost between sexism and ageism.

GenXX info

HollywoodtoBollywood.net

https://aberrationfilms.com/

https://www.mariaburtondirector.com/

www.moniquesorgen.com

0:00:09 Introduction to the GenXX Initiative and the Directors Behind It
0:00:49 The Birth of GenXX Initiative
0:03:19 Strike Allows for Discussion on GenXX Initiative
0:11:07 Experience and Awards Prove Talent
0:14:44 Creating a Database and Telling Diverse Stories
0:20:41 Creating Projects and Telling Untold Stories
0:23:44 The Importance of Creating Your Own Work
0:24:58 Creating Own Work and Proving Expertise
0:34:49 Creating Opportunities for Women in the Film Industry
0:37:31 Continuing Education and Growth in the Filmmaking Community
0:45:22 From Hollywood to Bollywood: A Life-Changing Move
0:46:34 Advice for Women in the Business

 https://linktr.ee/julieharrisoliver

EP 234: Emily Best →

I caught up with Emily Best, the founder and CEO of Seed&Spark and also Film Forward, which is an experiential learning platform designed to activate the full potential of today's dynamic and diverse workforce by replacing boring corporate training videos with a cinematic learning experience built around award-winning short films from around the world. I've seen this program, it is so cool, and she's going to tell us about it.

One of the things I love about this business, and I guess about life, is getting to see how people's careers develop and how they grow and evolve. I interviewed Emily a few years ago about Seed&Spark and her origin story and all things crowdfunding on Catch a Break Season 2, Episode 203: https://www.catchabreakpodcast.com/season-two/ep203crowdfunding

But today, I initially reached out to Emily to talk about her newer venture, Film Forward, and the important work she's doing there.

Our conversation expanded to include her thoughts about managing a company with a dispersed and remote workforce and how COVID changed everything, about intentionally creating culture in a company in those circumstances, how humbling it is to do this work authentically, and trying to shift the American culture to prioritize human dignity above individual achievement.

Emily continues to be an incredibly thoughtful visionary, and I was inspired by this conversation.

https://linktr.ee/julieharrisoliver

EP 233: Blake Mitchell →

Today on this podcast we have the good fortune to speak with Blake Mitchell. Blake Mitchell (they/them) began their career in film production in Los Angeles, working for the VP of Production at Participant Media. After leaving LA, they worked at Google over 8 years where they managed teams in diversity & inclusion, learning & development and recruiting. A Georgia native, Blake moved back to the South in fall 2022 to work as an Operations Manager on Stacey Abrams' campaign for Governor. They recently launched their own consulting business focused on workplace diversity & inclusion and organization culture. Blake holds bachelors degrees in International Business, Finance and Entertainment & Media Studies from the University of Georgia.

Also, Blake has been performing in drag as Mary Lou Pearl (she/her) and sees drag as a powerful tool to entertain, educate, raise money and spread positivity. MLP got her start in the drag bars and clubs of San Francisco in 2017 where she became known as a kind queen who loves giving back and spreading positivity. She's spent the last 2 summers working and teaching drag at Brave Trails LGBTQ+ summer camp where she's returned this summer as Head Counselor. 

Now I’m going to tell you right now, drag, along with gay, queer, and trans is under attack in this country, and hardly any of the talking heads screaming about indoctrination of children have any idea what they’re talking about. So we are going to take some time today and really unpack it. What is drag, actually?

Here, have a listen.

www.theotherfiftypercent.com/blog

How to reach Blake:

website: www.blakemitchellconsulting.com

instagram: @missmaryloupearl 

email: blake@blakemitchellconsulting.com

EP 232: Kiah Amara →

You can find me and my consulting work at Julieharrisoliver.com and you can find links to everything I’m doing at linktr.ee/julieharrisoliver. The newest thing I have for you is that I’ve added a link for the books that people keep bringing up on the show. That way, you don’t have to remember as you’re listening and your purchase can help support the show, and we’re supporting independent bookstores. It’s a win win win.

Today on this podcast we are diving into disability and accessibility and how to invite and manage people and their needs on set.

This feels like one of the less often discussed pillars in the work of diversity , equity, inclusion and accessibility, and I’m really happy we have Kiah Amara on the show today to help us start thinking about it and planning for it.

Kiah is a Disabled, Queer, and nonbinary producer, activist, and production accessibility coordinator. Originally from the rural Midwest, they now work globally expanding ideas of Accessibility, Disability, and all things deviant from normal through their company IndieVISIBLE Entertainment. Kiah is the PAC (production accessibility coordinator) on Best Foot Forward on AppleTV+ which was featured in The New York Times and awarded a 2022 Ruderman Seal of Authenticity. Other work includes the Netflix x RespectAbility Children's Content Lab, The Greatest ad, Rosie's Rules , CBS and WarnerBros. Discovery Talent Initiatives, and Accessibility Lead for the Far Out product launch at the Steve Jobs Theatre.

https://www.indievisibleentertainment.com/services

Inevitable Foundation: https://www.inevitable.foundation/

RespectAbility: https://www.respectability.org/

FWD-doc: https://www.fwd-doc.org/

Ride the Omnibus: https://www.omnibusride.com/

Access Horror: https://www.accesshorror.com/

*Access Horror Conference Virtual July 8-9 and in-person Film Screening July 9

(registration goes live 5/29)

EP 231: Dr. Apollo Emeka →

You can find me and my consulting work at Julieharrisoliver.com and you can find links to everything I’m doing at linktr.ee/julieharrisoliver. The newest thing I have for you is that I’ve added a link for the books that people keep bringing up on the show. That way, you don’t have to remember as you’re listening and your purchase can help support the show, and we’re supporting independent bookstores. It’s a win win win.

Today on this podcast I sat with Dr. Apollo Emeka. Apollo is the Founder and CEO of Apollo Strategy Group Inc., an innovative leadership and strategy consultancy for business leaders, companies, and the Next Wave of ventures launched by diverse and impactful founders.

Since its inception, Apollo Strategy Group has created over $500m in value for 100+ high-performance leaders and businesses in industries such as technology, real estate, professional services, and entertainment by developing bespoke strategies and providing hands-on implementation. Prior to founding Apollo Strategy Group, Apollo launched and sold a business he scaled from one to seven locations within four years while serving as an FBI Intelligence Analyst. In 2022, he retired from a decorated 20-year military career as a U.S. Army Special Forces Green Beret and a U.S. Military Intelligence Analyst.

Apollo has a Doctorate of Policy, Planning and Development from the University of Southern California and lives with his wife and two children in Pasadena, CA.

Apollo Strategy Group Inc. is Small Business Certified, Disabled Veteran Business Certified, and Minority Business Enterprise Certified.

We talked about his journey going from being unschooled to his PhD at USC, how he thinks about leadership and achievement and how he works with clients to embed equity all along the way.

EP 230: Becky Morrison →

Today on the podcast I sat with Becky Morrison. If that name sounds familiar, it’s because she was originally on episode 187 of this show. So, go back to that episode to revisit her origin story, because today we’re going to jump right in to the meat of the work.

Becky Morrison is an award-winning film and TV producer and an advocate for production innovation. She kicked-off her career on the Hollywood blockbuster I AM LEGEND, dabbled in the world of animation on Disney’s THE WILD, then entered the world of rock n’ roll producing the visual content for U2’s world tour.

In 2015, Becky founded The Light, the premier production company for those looking to create systemic change in the film industry. She has spent years studying the history of Hollywood production and uses her research to inform a new framework for production that is grounded in inclusion, equity and sustainability.

We’re going to talk about that framework and her approach for revolutionizing the production process now.

EP 229: Karen Horne →

Today we are doing a deep dive into pipeline programs with Karen Horne.

Karen Horne is a senior executive with over 20 years of experience within the entertainment industry. She has been recognized as a Diversity and Inclusion pioneer and pipeline builder. Karen is Senior Vice President, Diversity, Equity & Inclusion, North America at Warner Bros. Discovery. In this role she oversees the DEI efforts for creative talent development pipeline programs, workforce, content and production while working closely with the Global Chief Diversity Equity & Inclusion Officer to create a global strategy for the company.

Prior to joining WarnerMedia, Karen spent over a decade at NBCUniversal,where she was Senior Vice President, Programming Talent Development and Inclusion. In this role, Karen was responsible for overseeing in-front-of and behind-the-camera primetime diversity efforts. The programs and initiatives she created and/or developed became the industry’s gold standard and a blueprint for many other companies

Horne designed, implemented and oversaw Nickelodeon’s Writer Fellowship Program. She was the Director of Writer Development & Special Projects for Walt Disney Studios and Walt Disney Network Television. Previously, she served as Director, West Coast, for the Black Filmmaker Foundation.

Horne was also a Co-producer for the HBO Emmy Award-winning animated series “Spawn.”

Her early career includes stints at ABC as the Executive Assistant to the President, ABC Entertainment, as well as positions at ABC Television Network Group and ABC Sports.

Ms. Horne has spoken both nationally and internationally on diversity and inclusion best practices and has been honored with several awards and recognitions for her diversity and inclusion work and her service to underrepresented communities. She serves on the boards of RespectAbility; Montclair State University’s School of Communication and Media; USC’s Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, The Alliance of Women Directors, the Bay Area’s Urban League and is a member of several entertainment industry organizations.

We talked about the different kinds of pipeline programs, how they work, and why we still need them.

EP 228: Bree Frank →

We are continuing our conversation about inclusion, equity and diversity with Bree Frank, founder of Hue You Know.

As an accomplished Television Executive, and advocate for people of color in media, Bree is passionate about creating opportunities for professionals of all backgrounds.

With over 20+ years of professional production experience, she has produced over 300 hours of unscripted television, including MTV's Room Raiders, TLC's A Makeover Story, and the award-winning television format Wife Swap. She has also contributed to a number of series during a 10-year run in Production Management for ZodiakMedia's New York office. 

In 2018, Bree took a leap of faith and moved her family to Los Angeles, CA to begin a new chapter of life. She quickly landed at Matador Content and served as the Executive in Charge of Production, where she managed a robust development slate as well as projects for Disney+, Apple TV+, Crackle, and Showtime. Most recently, Bree was at Hello Sunshine (Reese Witherspoon's media company), as their Senior Vice President of Physical Production for Unscripted where she was tapped four years ago to build out physical production services. Bree has served as an executive on Hulu's Fairplay, Roku's Meet Me in Paris, and Apple's My Kind of Country as well as a healthy slate of brand funded projects . Bree's passion is to tell exceptional stories and move the television zeitgeist forward while championing diversity, equity, inclusion and access.

Bree dropped so much truth in this episode there were a couple of times where I forgot that I had to keep up my end of the conversation - I just wanted to keep listening.

EP 227: MyKhanh Shelton →

Today I sat down with MyKhanh Shelton, a brilliant DEI practitioner and Attorney.

With more than 20 years of experience as a legal and diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) advisor in the media and entertainment industry, MyKhanh Shelton has deep expertise in identifying, evaluating and mitigating legal risks and a proven track record of designing people strategies and systems to attract and retain diverse workforces, and foster inclusive cultures. 

From 2020 to 2022, MyKhanh served as Senior Vice President, Enterprise Inclusion for WarnerMedia where she was responsible for leading workforce DEI initiatives for WarnerMedia’s global workforce of 30,000 employees, including production safety initiatives across Warner Bros., HBO and HBO max productions. 

Prior to WarnerMedia, MyKhanh served as Senior Vice President, Global Inclusion at 21st Century Fox, where she led initiatives to increase diversity and inclusion across the company’s 20,000 person workforce in film, television, sports, news and digital businesses. She also advised internal and external partners on matters related to diversity of stories, portrayals, and representation in the entertainment industry. Prior to forming the DEI Center of Excellence, she served the company as Senior Vice President, Fox Group Legal.  In that role, she led litigation teams across the US, represented Fox in industry-wide litigation and initiatives, and advised senior executives on a wide variety of employment-related matters.   

MyKhanh holds a Bachelor of Arts from UCLA and a Juris Doctor from UC Berkeley. She serves on the boards of Facing History and Ourselves and Promax, and we will learn more about that as well.

We talked about meeting people where they are, using data to inform the work, her particular philosophy of speaking truth to power with love and data. 

EP 226: Dr. Meghan Burke →

We are continuing our series of talking with experts who work in various aspects of diversity, equity and inclusion across industries and in entertainment specifically. Today I sat down with Dr. Meghan Burke. We talked about how white people can approach this work without getting hung up on feelings of shame and guilt and centering ourselves. None of that is particularly helpful. We also examined the notion of being "Colorblind" when it comes to race. What's wrong with that? 

Dr. Meghan Burke is a sociologist and author of three books about contemporary racism and whiteness, most recently the book Colorblind Racism. She was an award-winning teacher, scholar, diversity advocate, and advisor during her 15 years working as a professor at a small liberal arts college, where for 10 years she co-developed and directed an innovative program designed to equip white students with an understanding of equity, inclusion, and intersectionality so that they could effectively work as partners in DEI efforts. 

She also traveled around the country offering keynote talks and workshops for communities looking to deepen their commitments to racial and social justice through interrogations of whiteness. Meghan left higher education in 2021 for a career in industry, utilizing her social science research skills and her subject matter expertise to drive positive change for companies that serve the common good.

We talk about how it is to show up as a white person doing the work of dismantling racist systems. A theme you’ll hear repeatedly is it’s not if and whether, but when and how. That will make sense when you listen.

EP 225: Dr. Tanisha Thelemaque →

Let's talk about trauma and production. How does the stress affect you over time? Stress affects all people, but it isn't evenly distributed across all people. And what happens when it accumulates without being addressed? (I have a story that was not my finest moment.) Dr. Thelemaque helps us to unpack it and gives us some strategies to cope.

Dr. Tanisha Thelemaque is a licensed psychologist with over a decade of experience furthering equity-focused initiatives. Her research interests have focused on the mental health impacts of racial discrimination on Black Americans with an emphasis on the intersections of trauma and gender. 

Currently, Dr. Thelemaque owns a Bay Area therapy practice in addition to holding numerous roles within the psychological community. She works with renowned mental health organizations including the National Center for PTSD as a mobile applications tester, content writer, and subject matter expert on issues of race; she maintains a leadership role within the California Psychological Association as the Chair-Elect of the Division for Diversity and Social Justice. Additionally, she collaborates with individuals and various organizations as a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant. Her focus is on developing psychologically safe, trauma-informed work environments and navigating racial trauma in people of color.

EP 224: Dr. Kira Banks →

Today we are kicking off our series of talking with experts who work in various aspects of diversity, equity, and inclusion across industries and in the entertainment industry specifically. First up is Dr. Kira Banks.

DEI work is "so hard" in entertainment and it's also "not hard at all." What's the deal? And why is it so hard for an industry who sees themselves as such good people to face the systemic racism they are swimming in?

Dr. Banks' decades of experience allow her to make complex and controversial topics accessible in schools, communities, institutions of higher education and corporations. She co-founded the Institute for Healing Justice and Equity at St. Louis University, where she has a professor in the Department of Psychology.

In addition, she has published over 20 articles in peer reviewed publications. And she has contributed to the Harvard Business Review, the Atlantic and the Guardian. She received her BA from Mount Holyoke College where she graduated Phi Beta Kappa and her MA and PhD are from the University of Michigan.

Today, Dr. Banks has a podcast called "Raising Equity" to support adults in talking to kids about systems of oppression. She's also a co-principal of the Mouse and the Elephant, which develops customized curriculum to meet organizations' long-term needs.

On a personal note, I have learned a tremendous amount from Dr. Banks and I am thrilled she agreed to do this podcast, and I'm so excited for you to get to meet her and hear what she has to say.

EP 223: The Solo episode. Where have I been?

This is a rare episode where I, Julie Harris Oliver, talk about myself. I tell you where I’ve been the last couple of years, what I’m thinking about, where this podcast is going and why I changed my name. At the risk of causing myself a vulnerability hangover, here it is.

Julie Harris Oliver, Producer, Host, Consultant

Julie Harris Oliver works with production companies and producers to address the lack of diversity and roll out data-driven human-centered tools to foster equitable and inclusive spaces. She most recently served as the Director of Production Equity and Inclusion at Warner Bros Discovery, where her mission was to make the company’s film and TV sets the safest, most inclusive places to create in the world.

After two decades in the entertainment industry, Julie realized that too often she was the only woman in the room where the decisions were being made and she needed a platform for the change she wanted to make. So, in 2016 she launched a podcasting company and produced six seasons of “The Other 50%: A Herstory of Hollywood” where she has interviewed over 220 successful women of all backgrounds who work in entertainment, and several brilliant gender equity experts. What started as an exploration of implicit bias in Hollywood quickly became an education in representation and inclusion. Julie is currently producing the 4th season of “Catch A Break” about getting your start in the industry, while talking to brilliant practitioners in all kinds of crew and studio positions.

Prior to Julie’s DEI work, she held executive positions at GreenSlate, Entertainment Partners, and HBO after being a production auditor for the Walt Disney Company. She holds a BFA from NYU's Tisch School of the Arts.

Episode 216: Cecilia Escobar, Founder, Accountant, Payroll Expert

For this episode, I sat with Cecilia Escobar, Founder and President of Smart Accounting Solutions. With more than 30 years of Entertainment Payroll and Accounting Expertise Cecilia has held executive and senior management roles for multiple entertainment payroll companies like Media Services and Axium, and most recently, she was the Vice President of Payroll Operations at Entertainment Partners. 

In between these positions, she freelanced as a payroll and production accountant on major motion pictures and studios for over 18 years.

Cecilia is a Multi-Cultural Client Business Partner, leading efforts for Multi-Cultural Diversity in the Industry. She has hosted many Diversity Client events as well as sponsorships to Diversity Production Summits and Trade Shows. One of her latest pet-projects is bridging Latin American Film Productions with their US counterparts. 

Cecilia is currently a member of multiple entertainment industry associations including N.A.L.I.P., Women In Film, and Hispanic Professionals.

She has just started a non-profit called Sandbar Sanctuary – a Horse Rescue and Equine Therapy for Abused Women. With her love of horses, she hopes to help women bond and find a way to heal through therapeutic equine experiences. 

To reach Cecilia: Info@sasolutionsinc.com

Episode 181: Heidi Nel, Social Impact Executive

This episode is brought to you by:

Heidi Nel is the Executive Director of Good Films Impact. She previously served as the head of The Raben Group’s Impact Entertainment division where she provided pro‐social consultation to leaders in media, entertainment, and philanthropy. Clients included the American Film Institute, The Fledgling Fund, One Community, PBS, Sony Pictures TV, and YouTube, as well as independent filmmakers, artists, and change makers.

With nearly two decades working in entertainment, advocacy, strategic communications, and public engagement, Heidi is a leader in the social impact field, with unique insight and expertise in advancing cultural and policy change through stories and film. Her issue‐area expertise includes criminal justice reform, immigration, sexual assault, and gender and racial equity.

Prior to The Raben Group, Heidi was a Partner at Picture Motion where she led the Washington, D.C. office. She began her career at Ghost House Pictures where she co‐produced an original web and TV mini‐series for Comcast, and managed marketing at Lionsgate for Grindstone Entertainment films. In addition to her work on Just Mercy through the development of the Represent Justice campaign, she has led impact strategy and successful engagement campaigns tied to award‐winning films, such as Batkid Begins, The Best of Enemies, Food Chains, Happening, The Human Experiment, The Hunting Ground, The Invisible War, The Return, Racing Extinction, and The Rape of Recy Taylor.

Heidi has guest lectured at Boston University and the George Washington University, and was an adjunct instructor at Duke University in the Sanford School of Public Policy. She has been featured in Variety, Real Screen, Screen Daily, Washington Life Magazine, and HuffPost; has been recognized by the Case Foundation as a “Millennial Leader to Follow”; and received the Media Impact Award from the PVBLIC Foundation and the United Nations Office for Partnerships. Originally from South Africa, Heidi grew up in Colorado and attended the University of North Carolina School of the Arts where she majored in modern dance. She is currently completing an Executive Certificate in Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School, and lives in Alexandria, VA with her husband and dog. 

Episode 172: Jeffery Tobias Halter, Gender Strategist

This episode is brought to you by:

Jeffery Tobias Halter is a gender strategist and the President of YWomen, a strategic consulting company focused on engaging men in women’s leadership advancement. Jeffery is the former Director of Diversity Strategy for The Coca-Cola Company. He is the author of two books including WHY WOMEN, The Leadership Imperative to Advancing Women and is a two-time TEDx speaker. His clients include dozens of Fortune 500 companies and he serves on the Board of Trustees for Miss America 2.0.

I originally interviewed Jeffery for episode 13, which you can find here. This was before #metoo and TimesUp and we were just exploring unconscious gender bias in the workplace.

Jeffery has been doing his work as a gender strategist for a long time, but I wondered how his work has ramped up and changed focus in recent days. Luckily, I got to ask him.

You can find more here:

Gender Advocacy Quiz - https://ywomen.biz/male-advocacy-profile/

Articles - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jefferyhalter/detail/recent-activity/posts/

website - www.ywomen.biz

Twitter - @YWomen

Episode 159: Pamela Douglas, Writer

This episode is brought to you by:

Pamela is an award-winning writer with numerous credits in television drama. She consults internationally with professional TV writers and producers, and has lectured in Africa, Europe, and throughout the US. She was awarded the Humanitas Prize for Between Mother and Daughter on CBS, and she has garnered multiple Emmy nominations and American Women in Radio and Television Awards for her other dramas. Her book “Writing the TV Drama Series” just came out in it’s 4th edition, and we talked about what is in the book and how to make it as a TV writer.

She is also an amazing visual artist. Her house is filled with her art, and I became quite emotional looking at a couple of pieces, which really never happens to me with art. I thought it was stunning. You can see more here: http://pamdouglasart.com/

You can buy the book here:

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Episode 156: Liz Jenkins, CFO, Hello Sunshine

This episode generously sponsored by:

Liz is the Chief Financial Officer of Hello Sunshine, the media brand founded by Reese Witherspoon. She tells us all about the company, their mission, and their culture. It’s as good as you imagined. Liz was formerly the Senior Vice President of Corporate Development and Strategy at Media Rights Capital. While there, she worked on the deal to bring House of Cards to Netflix, which was then written up as a Harvard Business Review business case, and she talks it about it here as well. Liz is very much one of the best and brightest, and I’m so happy to have her on the show.

Episode 154: Melinda McLaughlin, Chief Marketing Officer

This episode generously sponsored by:

Melinda is the Chief Marketing Officer at Extreme Reach. You may notice that Extreme Reach is the sponsor of this podcast, so that’s how I met her, but I would have interviewed her regardless. She tells us a bit more about the company, and we talked a lot about her journey in her work life. How important it is to be authentic, how self-awareness is key to leadership, and how knitting might be the key to everything.

And how highly paid executives will still tackle each other when something is being given away for free.  Humans are funny.